00:00:00: Architecture
00:00:01: Talks, the podcast
00:00:02: about architecture
00:00:04: from
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00:00:31: monumental and improvised, historically layered and constantly transforming.
00:00:37: It is exactly between these opposites that the master thesis Brave New Axis by Spiriton Lucchidis Marcos Georgios Saquelion and Georgios Talasinos from The National Technical University of Athens unfolds.
00:00:54: The three architects received the prestigious EU Mies Young Talent Award, twenty-twenty five for their work.
00:01:02: One of the most important European awards for emerging architects presented and awarded during the Venice Biennale.
00:01:12: Their project begins with a nearly forgotten historical axis running through the centre of Athens but instead understanding this city as rigid geometric order they reinterpret Athens as a network of relationships, fragments, atmospheres and public spaces.
00:01:33: Their work moves somewhere between urban design architectural theory collage political vision and spatial storytelling.
00:01:43: the drawings recall archigrams super studio and radical architectural visions while simultaneously addressing very real issues such as public space, housing, urban voids and the future of European city centres.
00:02:01: Today we, Diana Slavich & Eva Herrmann talk with them about earthens, urban fragments new strategies for european cities.
00:02:19: Hello and a very warm welcome in our today's Young Talks podcast.
00:02:24: Great to have you with us!
00:02:27: Thank you for having us.
00:02:29: First of all, our congratulations on winning the EU Mies Young Talent Award.
00:02:34: What does this award mean?
00:02:37: Well first off course it is great honor To get this award.
00:02:41: At the same time its really nice that All our work And all our efforts are being rewarded.
00:02:47: In a way I mean, it didn't necessarily have to be with this award but It's nice to see that all the difficulties and everything we went through is actually paid off And it's recognized by other people as well.
00:03:00: But simultaneously This award means maybe its not for the people or the architect who are getting awarded The ideas behind them in an alternative way To see the city Or a critical way of thinking about architecture and everyday life, so this is also important
00:03:18: for
00:03:18: us.
00:03:19: Yeah I'm glad to have the opportunity to participate on all these European Dialogues over last year until this event And a broader and much needed conversations about the pressing issues our cities face today!
00:03:32: Also very glad that after getting this prize lot of creative things happened in here.
00:03:38: We actually managed to attend a lot of congresses, took a lot different institutions after that.
00:03:43: We got a lot opportunities and also it's great for young people to start this career.
00:03:50: So... And to help our listeners how would you describe Brave New Axis in three words or images?
00:04:00: Like audio images?
00:04:02: Well, Brave New AXIS is three words!
00:04:07: It's not going to work.
00:04:08: The first is going to be the topian, maybe.
00:04:12: I don't think you could talk as they're at war because nowadays we use that work in everything.
00:04:18: but it may be different from what today's market is about.
00:04:22: so maybe the word speculative.
00:04:24: then what will happen if we think something differently?
00:04:28: So maybe it's a phrase on the world... What if...?
00:04:32: Maybe critical is next one
00:04:34: trying to condense into three words not very easy
00:04:39: Something about her dates, maybe.
00:04:42: I would say quality.
00:04:44: at the center of your project is a historical axis from the eighteenth century master plan off essence A time when the city after the Greek independence was meant to become European capital ordered monumental representative.
00:04:59: But in brave new access you actually tell this story over very different cities City of in between spaces, fragments hidden relationships.
00:05:09: So
00:05:09: why were you interested in this almost forgotten lines or excess?
00:05:16: Well Spiros and I grew up in Athens.
00:05:19: the three of us studied in Athens.
00:05:21: we were outside in the city center all the time And these parts of Athens is very interesting area.
00:05:28: it's next to medieval part Next to modern parts with buildings from the fifties into sixties But at the same time, it has The Ancient Monuments some of New Classical monuments.
00:05:38: Some of the Byzantine monuments is basically a link to all the different areas and eras of Athens And he was really interesting for us that studied in Athens.
00:05:51: The urban planning of Athens In the eighteen thirties.
00:05:53: It's very important lesson At our school So we were familiar with All the different design stages.
00:05:59: This had been true.
00:06:00: When you look out on map or when You Look at drawing from that era what was supposed to be.
00:06:06: And then look at the actual map is when you start to realize, oh they were thinking of doing that there but... They didn't and did this as well!
00:06:14: There's a huge clear line cutting through the city.
00:06:19: We're trying to say okay where it is?
00:06:21: What happened with that?
00:06:22: That how we started looking into it.
00:06:24: I think It was something that intrigued us To look further in to it and explore what happens there.
00:06:34: Our professors said to us, now you have to walk all over the area again and again.
00:06:40: And we had to discover it again because... You knew that as a user which is significant part of everyday life but now you also have to find an architect behind those elements.
00:06:53: at first sight That's actually what we did!
00:06:57: We were walking around in thirty-eight degrees during summer just looking into buildings how the building uses SIFT from past five years in the ground level.
00:07:09: For example, let's say about... Five years ago some soaps closed and after that new opened or reuses chains.
00:07:17: What I understood is that Athens was quite hybrid but vertically and horizontally at the same time.
00:07:25: When you try to discover a building You see maybe on the ground floor there is a shop But next level There is a warehouse, and after that there's an office.
00:07:35: It's really interesting how different
00:07:37: elements
00:07:38: function in one building.
00:07:39: And of course when you go from the west side to follow the axis To this side we see all these distinct elements That you discover as your crossing it.
00:07:50: There are also lines at the centre of the axis That connects the Oonia Square to the Monasteraki area.
00:07:57: It will divide the Athenian Triangle into two houses.
00:08:01: The commercial one, let's say it is the one that tries to find its identity today.
00:08:07: I think this was our main point.
00:08:08: We tried to redefine all these creeds and this strict line To a more dynamic and pivotal structure.
00:08:16: like different points in urban voids That person actually accounts.
00:08:21: along with journey you make inside city You can meet different kinds of qualities like you have the residential use in one side and on the other, so I have all this commercial urban area.
00:08:35: And we tried to redefine that re-matching of all these kinds new living in a city and how can truly respect it somehow reduce all this electrification in their new cities over touristic parts of Athens?
00:08:51: In the preliminary conversation you talked about a City within a city.
00:08:57: So urban space is hidden between buildings that could potentially become collective spaces, but are often unused.
00:09:05: Why are you so interested in these urban voids?
00:09:11: When you think about an axis we see the line where.
00:09:13: if try to discover what's happening behind it... ...you will see some points that constitutes a line itself.
00:09:21: That point actually empty vast spaces that are needed of having identity.
00:09:27: Some of them are those spaces that they constitute the city within this city.
00:09:34: We did a mapping with whole area to try and discover how many these spaces were, we can use it.
00:09:42: for example one of them was designed as a labyrinth.
00:09:48: It has actually the nodes of the labyrinths in the arcades of the commercial centre of Fathons.
00:09:54: Each one of these boys plays a crucial role in the city and actually if you try to rediscover them, it may change the whole city.
00:10:04: Actually this inquiry was first that we thought when we gate with the area If we changed the points does the hall transform?
00:10:13: That's what is our main question.
00:10:18: It's interesting enough because probably about how the urban blocks are laid in the greed always.
00:10:26: You have all these arcades connecting, passing through private buildings but they are used by the public to go from one place to another.
00:10:35: They have shops on the shade and it creates a different scale for rest of city.
00:10:39: And this at many points connect with light wells and empty spaces.
00:10:45: But there is also other building that has those empty spaces.
00:10:50: so people don't use them.
00:10:52: people that live and use these buildings, don't use them because it's everyone's and nobody is at the same time.
00:10:58: So this something happens in Athens.
00:11:00: This semi-private, semipublic space exists but other points doesn't.
00:11:04: so why not try to give a push help?
00:11:07: those areas are really interesting.
00:11:09: they protect you from shade or noise on issues of city?
00:11:14: At some point we used them.
00:11:15: sometimes we didn't.
00:11:17: It was interesting.
00:11:18: what changes What could change, and what's the difference in all these?
00:11:24: We definitely have to talk about your drawings.
00:11:27: And your collars which reminded me on Articam.
00:11:31: I had a look at them and said oh it is like Utopia.
00:11:35: So they are so wonderful!
00:11:37: First of all The theory or the collage.
00:11:41: Why can collages sometimes communicate with cities better than photorealistic rendering Or an image something Like this kind of image.
00:11:53: I think because the city itself is a collage, so we have to use the same language.
00:11:59: It's an experimentation between thinking and drawing at the same time That process that goes back-and forth.
00:12:07: So it was the day for presentation.
00:12:09: We printed everything And put on the walls.
00:12:14: Oh my god!
00:12:14: Everything is so different.
00:12:17: But...we understood what had drawn different things out of different styles, but they actually also point this out.
00:12:28: Well we are three people in one
00:12:30: project
00:12:33: and there is a phrase that started our book with this project.
00:12:39: it's from Aziz the lesson to Felix Katari Capitalism.
00:12:44: It's the book The Thousand Plateaus.
00:12:48: Since it was several, there were already quite
00:12:52: a crowd.
00:12:53: We were three.
00:12:54: so imagine how different the drawings are going to be!
00:12:59: And I think at the same time we had maybe some kind of connection with Impressionism.
00:13:03: but this is how we see things.
00:13:05: that's how we feel about these things... ...I don't need give you an ultra-realistic rendering over building and imagining.. ..I'll give you idea through my eyes on How i See The City.
00:13:16: We saw the city as a collage itself, because it has all these layers of history and architectural styles.
00:13:23: And everything I think fit that description in the whole theme over our project.
00:13:29: but the cities are collage or work was a college.
00:13:33: why not drawings become collages?
00:13:35: well?
00:13:36: Also remember when we start this thesis which is some of his drinks for the final presentation on those totally Describe everything, one drawing from the beginning was the main point for our final presentation.
00:13:52: That's really important because we present drawings for all this process during our thesis.
00:13:59: Would you say that architecture nowadays needs new visions?
00:14:05: Marcos For example You said like rendering that shows exactly The reality might be a little bit boring.
00:14:14: So should we think more in these kind of collages, visions however?
00:14:21: Maybe to make it also more understandable for people who are not that close to architecture.
00:14:26: Well
00:14:26: I think
00:14:29: architects should experiment more and maybe find a critical way to understand what's happening every day life And from there start thinking about if they work differently.
00:14:45: It depends on the project and who you intend to be a recipient of these images.
00:14:52: If we were in the city, it was this partially utopian but at the same time grounded research into the city for an architectural thesis.
00:15:02: our main audience would first be colleagues or students from school teachers I think collages are different approaches is more easily digestible by architects.
00:15:16: If you are planning on showing something to, I don't know a client if you're designing a house or somebody that's not maybe as familiar with all these different kinds of expressions.
00:15:28: they might be so easily convinced and they may not realize what the vision was.
00:15:35: i think it depends upon who your project is what your mood on that day was, it's a whole lot of things.
00:15:43: Realistic renderings have very important role is how you communicate to other people with your vision.
00:15:49: if I'm going to buy house and paying an architect to build me a house i want to see what the finished product will be... ...I want to actually see what is going on.. ..and I don't just want a collage over another kitchen or something like that.
00:16:03: there are some things need to be practical realistic but at the same time gives you the freedom to express yourself and be more playful.
00:16:13: And I feel like in a large scale as well, when we don't have that time or it's not really necessary... ...to design each and every detail.
00:16:23: Not that we didn't go into the details of designing toilets and lifts but i think this gives us more creative freedom To say That is an idea!
00:16:36: how the door opens at this point because it's not necessary.
00:16:40: I'll show you a door, i'll show your opening... ...I think that has to do with scale.
00:16:45: and what is yours?
00:16:46: The audience!
00:16:47: We're
00:16:47: engaging in an urban context.
00:16:50: maybe we should try to show our system but we thought about the city And not just the final image of it To explain your vision Your thoughts and trying to pass through people who are going live there Your vision about it?
00:17:08: You have just mentioned the role of a critical architect.
00:17:12: We are facing problems like housing crisis over tourism, The difference between private and public spaces or in-between spaces.
00:17:22: Do we need some other or stronger shared urban strategies today
00:17:28: And
00:17:28: how do you get them?
00:17:31: Well, housing generally Europe is significant issue.
00:17:35: So trying to find alternative ways to deal with this problem, we as architects should prioritize that.
00:17:42: Discover alternative forms of property.
00:17:44: maybe that would make living in a house more affordable?
00:17:48: We need to do it at the same European level... ...we see today some initiatives such as House Europe and work is really important.
00:17:56: so maybe you should unite our voices on issues and housing are one of them.
00:18:04: Would you say that your generation thinks more seriously about these topics than the older one?
00:18:12: Do you see a difference?
00:18:15: We see differences in their way.
00:18:17: we think of them.
00:18:20: People from different ages are dealing with same issues and actually by talking to them, they understand there's problems.
00:18:28: Maybe our generation is trying to think of a critical way about how cities will be more eco-friendly or how they'll reuse the buildings that we already have.
00:18:42: We don't need any more buildings, especially in the historic centre of our city's Athens.
00:18:50: it's full of empty buildings right now which would solve housing crisis.
00:18:55: I think what's different in our generation is that it's way easier to connect with other people, whether it is through the internet social media blogs YouTube anything like that or through traveling.
00:19:09: Traveling Is Way More Affordable and Way Easier Than It Used To Be In Previous Generations.
00:19:17: The Flights Are Cheaper.
00:19:18: You Can Sometimes Find Cheaper Accommodation Than It used to be.
00:19:22: Its Not Necessarily something that is only for the elite or for the very top tiers of society.
00:19:30: It's something almost everyone can do, I think it's good for our generation.
00:19:38: we have similar issues with cities around us and need to look at how they found solutions to their problems.
00:19:44: We meet other people who might be interested in the exact opposite interests.
00:19:50: It doesn't really matter, but it's that you have the way to do.
00:19:53: And its way more accessible than it used to be I think is very important and it's really interesting.
00:19:59: how shapes our generation in health changes our perceptions?
00:20:04: solutions in brazilona or Rome or Paris whatever they're not something at this far away out of mind outside.
00:20:13: You can go look them up on the internet there.
00:20:16: no I had no idea what happens everywhere else.
00:20:21: You can look it up and people, i think do things like that.
00:20:25: as you mentioned It's hard to get an exit to the market.
00:20:30: so What chance does a younger generation have?
00:20:33: To get involved into these?
00:20:35: problem solving in two cities
00:20:39: is also really crucial for the young professionals Like us to study at work different environments and travel load because its completely changed our perspective I'm gonna say.
00:20:50: And they also bring fresh ideas back to their homes and countries while contributing to a global dialogue,
00:20:58: too.
00:20:59: A modern metropolis pays complex challenges both in different cities like House of Crescent, climatic chasings... ...and all this kind of things that have found similar solutions cannot be isolated.
00:21:13: All these collaborations meant sharing data.
00:21:16: The new generation can engage in continuous and critical evacuation of these certain realities.
00:21:25: You develop Brave New Access as students, now it's already a while ago you've entered the professional life.
00:21:33: how does that transition feel for you?
00:21:36: What are your plans?
00:21:37: future if I remember correctly have like kind different plans.
00:21:44: It's different now that you've finished your studies and you're actually at the professional environment.
00:21:49: Everyday life is definitely different, I think.
00:21:53: At the same time our profession allows us to constantly Think of new things And try to learn new things.
00:22:01: So it's not that we stopped our research Not that we stop our goals or ideas Or anything?
00:22:08: It has changed, but it's still smaller.
00:22:13: But still part of our lives.
00:22:16: as far as the future goes I don't really know what i'm going to do?
00:22:20: I like this.
00:22:21: new daily life is a professional world and how its different from the academic one... ...but I dont have any specific plans for not even near-future!
00:22:40: Well, the path for me is going to be totally different.
00:22:44: At first years of my professional life I found myself engaging with construction which can be good in order get some experience on how you will construct something that you would design in future but i don't think im meant this kind of work.
00:23:02: so after also getting awarded last year I talk with myself and discover that it needs to be more creative.
00:23:10: I spent the whole year searching for a post-master's program, which is something that will follow next year.
00:23:18: And really like to transform my theory of text into design.
00:23:23: so let us say they would try create their own practice on this team but we'll see how.
00:23:32: In general, I think that the vision of architecture is what they want to be engaged more rather than their actual profession.
00:23:42: So Spiros now it's up to you!
00:23:44: I would
00:23:45: like to stay here and actively contribute in the future for
00:23:50: our city.
00:23:52: My goal is use all this opportunity from the world to boost four real challenges whether that means designing pedestal bonds and planning nothings, bringing corridors or finding empty
00:24:06: buildings into
00:24:07: a new character like social housing to pass all this theory in real action.
00:24:14: And I want make sure my work as an artist truly serves the people of society.
00:24:21: every single day.
00:24:23: We have traditional closing question If you could spend one day working together with an architectural group or an architect, or artistic movement from the history.
00:24:34: Who would it be?
00:24:36: So I can say Ricardo Bothil when he was in Barcelona... ...I've witnessed his work La Fabrica and also his residential project Walden VII The title of which is actually a book that's called Walden II.
00:24:52: so yes i was fascinated by the spaces that he created.
00:24:55: Yeah, Ricardo Bufildi was the one that I would love to work with.
00:25:00: The only thing i can think of right now is because... ...I'm looking at this painting behind me which is a sketch from the Sagrada Familia and we were in Barcelona couple weeks ago At least for the first few months over here.. ..I'd like maybe Gaudí And not the greatest fans his works But I really admire how different he's been since the architectural period and how he combined these practical studies along with drawings, naturalistic inspiration.
00:25:32: He hanged his ways from the chains to see what the art shape should be but at the same time had this very detailed floral details of those buildings.
00:25:42: I think it would really interesting that man not work in a strict new classical or new gothic society all the time.
00:25:53: He went into a completely new and groundbreaking direction, but at the same time had this very practical approach as well.
00:26:03: For me it would have to be Luis Baragán something different from European vision.
00:26:09: Baragón knows how to build landscapes of memory using light, shadows... The water on all these elements created sense of white reflection and serves a true memorial to the human spirit.
00:26:24: Thank you so much for this wonderful conversation, thank you very much for your time or insights on inspiring ideas.
00:26:33: we wish all of our best next steps in future work and listeners will hear us again at our next episode of The Jung Talks Podcast.